Message-Id: <199509200143.VAA07271@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:52:00 EDT
Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Subject:      Re: drata vs. frica
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

la dn cusku di'e

> .i le pamei kubli le remei kubli cu frica le ka skari
> The first cube differs from the second cube in the property of colour.
>
> How does this differ from:
>
> .i le pamei kubli le remei kubli cu drata *le ka skari
> The first cube is other than the second cube by the standard of the propery of
> colour.
>
> Is it valid to use the property colour as the standard for difference?  I
 think
> the crux of this problem is related to the meaning of the x3 place.

I don't think that colour can be a standard for drataness. If you
paint the two cubes the same colour, they will still remain drata,
but no longer frica. (BTW, it should be {pamoi} and {remoi}.)

{drata} is an essential relationship between the two cubes, and
{frica} is merely a circumstancial one. Of course, Lojban doesn't
really distinguish between those types of property in any organized
way that I know, so maybe there is no basis for the distinction.

What exactly is a {by standard x} place is another question for which
I still haven't found a personally satisfactory answer yet.

Jorge