Message-Id: <199509241040.GAA12467@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Sun, 24 Sep 1995 11:19:47 +0100
Reply-To: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: coi za'e jboterymri
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

> la and joi mi za'o katna loi mokca di'e
> > > > juocui mi krici i do zabna se tcaci lo sohi nu katna le mokca
> > > i lu katna le mokca li'u ue  i e'o doi goran ko sidju
> > kiu ma? lu katna le mokca liu se cusku tahi le ka sidbo simsa cei
>                                                                 ^^^no'u
kie, jaa ija lu {le ka sidbo simsa cei me lae zoi gy metaphor gy} liu,
xu?
> > lae zoi gy metaphor
> i iacu'i  i ganai da na'e kakne le nu selkatna gi da mokca

gohi i je kiu bo mapti fi le nu kamsmisni

> i lu katna le mokca li'u se smuni le du'u gasnu lo na'e cumki

do cao katna le mokca a le bae tcemlinalmokca - oinaipei?

> > > > > i mi za'o naljimpe
> > Okay - you used {zao} to mean "still".
> That's what it means, isn't it? I wish there was a word for its
> counterpart "already", for something that is happening before
> its natural/expected starting point. I wouldn't mind a new ZAhO
> for that.

Would the grammar allow {zaonai}, or some combination with {pu},
for "already" (and with {ba} for "still")?

I had understood {zao} differently. I thought it is for events the
technical term for which is "accomplishments" (and to which I suspect
{puu} is supposed to correspond), that have an inherent point of
completion, where the activity that brings about the accomplishment
continues after the result has been accomplished. For example, you
could paint a door until it is painted, but then continue to paint
it. That would, I had supposed, be superfective painting. But I
haven't encountered this notion outside Lojban (the index to Comrie's
to'e brilliant book on aspect has no entry for Superfective).

> > > i la'e zoi gy purple prose gy klesi loi prosa ma?
> > te gohi ka jgena plana tolmilxe kairbarokoko dukse
> xamgu mupli ki'e

mupli pehisehinaipei? oi oi!

coo, mie And