Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA22150 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:23:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199509271823.OAA22150@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v0.1a) with SMTP id 1B5E52D1 ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:00:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:54:04 +0100 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: Re: coi za'e jboterymri X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Wed Sep 27 14:23:11 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Jorge: > > > i ju'ocu'i i zo cei flalu se pilno fi tu'a zo broda i ku'i pe'i > > > le do selcusku cu se jimpe > > ma se pilno fi le nu cusku le simsa zo pou a zo nou gie ciksi skicu > > lo valsi be lo selbri? > i mi na djuno i cumki fa le nu zo cei banzu i ku'i pe'i dukse te pilno > > > > do cao katna le mokca a le bae tcemlinalmokca - oinaipei? > > > i ie i'a/i'anaise'i > > peu cao mockatna > i u'i lu ca'o mockatna li'u mi do cmene xu? zukte fi lu peu i cao liu i kui cmene gie mapti > > i mi na narselpluka i do xamgu se tsapi > i ckire i a'o la'e di'u zabna ve skicu i ckire i ri jaa zabna > > Even under my construal of {zao}, it remains a fairly good rendering > > of "still". But, as you said, it would be nice to have translations > > for both "still" and "already" that incorportate notions of > > "expected start" and "expected end". Maybe you could use a lujvo? > > {pajcfa}, {pajfao}? Or {ue}? > {ue} by itself doesn't say much: Is it surprize that it's already > going on, that it is still going on, or that it is simply going on > at all? I don't think the lujvo are quite that, either. A surprize > start is one thing, maybe even fully expected by the speaker. > I would much rather have a ZAhO. I suppose it should be a ZAhO. But it also has an element of attidudinality/UI-ness to it, so maybe two UI meaning "occurring sooner/later in spatiotemporal distribution than expected by me" might be more appropriate. Can ZAhO in general be used spatially? For example, if a road, or a pool of spilt cofee, extends further than one had expected, could one use {zao}? If there is an unexpected lacuna, could one use {dea}? If it ends sooner than expected, could one use perhaps {cou} (though that's apter for the road than for the coffee)? ---- And