Message-Id: <m0sy1Fe-0000ZRC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:54:04 +0100
Reply-To:     ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: coi za'e jboterymri
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1774
Lines: 42

Jorge:
> > > i ju'ocu'i  i zo cei flalu se pilno fi tu'a zo broda  i ku'i pe'i
> > > le do selcusku cu se jimpe
> > ma se pilno fi le nu cusku le simsa zo pou a zo nou gie ciksi skicu
> > lo valsi be lo selbri?
> i mi na djuno  i cumki fa le nu zo cei banzu  i ku'i pe'i dukse te pilno
> > > > do cao katna le mokca a le bae tcemlinalmokca - oinaipei?
> > > i ie i'a/i'anaise'i
> > peu cao mockatna
> i u'i lu ca'o mockatna li'u mi do cmene xu?

zukte fi lu peu i cao liu i kui cmene gie mapti

> > i mi na narselpluka i do xamgu se tsapi
> i ckire  i a'o la'e di'u zabna ve skicu

i ckire i ri jaa zabna

> > Even under my construal of {zao}, it remains a fairly good rendering
> > of "still". But, as you said, it would be nice to have translations
> > for both "still" and "already" that incorportate notions of
> > "expected start" and "expected end". Maybe you could use a lujvo?
> > {pajcfa}, {pajfao}? Or {ue}?
> {ue} by itself doesn't say much: Is it surprize that it's already
> going on, that it is still going on, or that it is simply going on
> at all? I don't think the lujvo are quite that, either. A surprize
> start is one thing, maybe even fully expected by the speaker.
> I would much rather have a ZAhO.

I suppose it should be a ZAhO. But it also has an element of
attidudinality/UI-ness to it, so maybe two UI meaning "occurring
sooner/later in spatiotemporal distribution than expected by me"
might be more appropriate.

Can ZAhO in general be used spatially? For example, if a road, or a
pool of spilt cofee, extends further than one had expected, could one
use {zao}? If there is an unexpected lacuna, could one use {dea}?
If it ends sooner than expected, could one use perhaps {cou} (though
that's apter for the road than for the coffee)?

----
And