Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0t5QqG-0000ZOC; Wed, 18 Oct 95 07:15 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 87530CD9 ; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 6:15:04 +0100 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:57:39 -0600 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: perfective counting & katna X-To: lojban@cuvmb.bitnet To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 2193 Lines: 64 >> > {mi nacpoiba'u} would be "I count (in the usual order)". >> > mi nacpoiba'u co'a li mu co'u li pano >> > I count from five to ten. >> >> That means "I count at the inception of 5 and at the cessation of 10". > >Not according to Nick's usage, which I like very much in this respect. > >{co'a} and {co'u} behave well as tcita, like any other non-ZAhO tense >and any BAI: essentially has the same kind of >meaning of but with greater precision as to the effect >of the tag. {co'a } is "starting at ", and {co'u } >is "stopping at ". Up till now I have been using And's method, which I think is what's recommended in the reference grammars. However, there's a problem with it: mi co'a citka le plise --> I start eating the apple should be the same as: mi co'a ku citka le plise and therefore mi citka le plise co'a ku and therefore mi citka le plise co'a da ku But somewhere along the line the meaninng changed: we're now talking about the start of {da} rather than the start of {citka}. >The irregular ones are {ba'o} and {pu'o}, and I see no reason to >spread their disease to other ZAhO. With Nick's system, there ought to be a consistent way of interpreting even {ba'o} and {pu'o}: mi citka le plise pu'o lenu do mi cinba I ate the apple over a stretch of time such that your kissing of me was just beforehand I was about to eat the apple when you kissed me This would parallel {ba} nicely: mi ba citka le plise I will eat the apple mi citka le plise ba lenu do mi cinba I eat the apple after you kiss me mi pu'o citka le plise I am/was/will-be about to eat the apple mi citka le plise pu'o lenu do mi cinba I am/was/will-be about to eat the apple when you kiss me For once I'm going to be a non-stick-in-the-mud and say I like this much better than what I believe the official version to be. Selbri tcita ought to be consistently considered shorthand for sumti tcita. ____ Chris Bogart \ / ftp://ftp.csn.net/cbogart/html/homepage.html Boulder, CO \/ cbogart@quetzal.com