Message-Id: <199510051804.OAA22590@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:34:25 EDT
Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Some questions on le'avla
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

coi paulos

i mi sruma le du'u do brazypre i xu mi drani i xu do ca zvati le brazygu'e

> There are word lists for cmavo, gismu, lujvo, etc., but I haven't
> found a le'avlaste anywhere. Is there something like that?

I think there isn't. The rules for fu'ivla (which is a better word
for le'avla) have never been very clear. I think that in principle,
anything that can't be a gismu or lujvo and doesn't violate the
morphology rules could be a fu'ivla, but I'm not even sure that is
true. The algorithm is a way of making sure of getting something that
can't be a gismu or lujvo, but I think it is not required that all
fu'ivla use it.

> Also the "algorithm" to make le'avla is not very specific about
> which consonant one should choose to begin the borrowing, which
> vowel to end it, which form of the original word to take, and
> even which gismu are most suitable to prefix it.
>
> For instance, the word "jenmrxametista" was suggested for
> "amethyst". Why an "x" at the beginning? Why the final "a"?

I always add x- to words to be borrowed that start with a vowel.
If the word to be borrowed does not end with a vowel, I use
the last vowel from the gismu, in this case {jemna}.

Which form of the original word to use is not at all clear. Ideally,
words to be borrowed should have only one form. When this is not
the case, I don't know what happens.

> The Aesop's fable text contains some animal names, e.g.
> "resprtestudine", "calkrdanlrkankre" (two prefixes!), and
> "cipnrkorvo". Then the ablative singular forms of the latin words
> "testudo", "cancer" and "corvus" were used in the le'avla.
> Is there any special reason? (This rule would also explain the
> final "a" in "jenmrxametista", and also suggest "jenmrxonike" or
> "jenmrxonice" for "onyx").

Personally, I think that common animals should have real Lojban names,
(lujvo) and not fu'ivla. I think that Nick had some rule like what
you suggest, but I don't really think there's much reason to use
the latin names.

> Still on "calkrdanlrkankre". The gismu "jukni" is defined as
> "x1 is a spider/arachnid/[crustacean/crab/lobster/non-insect
> arthropod] of species/breed x2". Then why not "juknrkankre"?

Seems better to me. But I would prefer a lujvo like {cakyjukni}
or something like that.

> By the way, is it possible to combine le'avla into lujvo, e.g.
> "cipnrkorvyterbilma" (crow disease)?

If fu'ivla can't contain "y", then there should be no problem, but
I don't know what's the rule.

Jorge