Message-Id: <m0t3Z8C-0000ZOC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Fri, 13 Oct 1995 02:27:49 MET
Reply-To:     Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Subject:      katna
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1208
Lines: 32

> [Note on {katna}: The place structure is strange. The x1 is supposed
> to be the instrument rather than the agent. If we take this seriously
> then {ka'argau} means "x1 uses x2 to cut x3", so you would need to add
> a {fi} in front of {le mi kerfa}. I would prefer to use {katna} as "x1
> cuts x2", and use {sepi'o} if an instrument place is needed.]

A cuts E with I:

Your suggestion:
da katna de sepi'o di

Existing solutions:
gau da di katna de
da ka'argau di de

...both shorter. Why complicate things. The instrument is more basic to
the action of cutting than agent. I can't see a way somebody could cut
something without an implement. (zo'o but then I couldn't see how could
an event be endless.) But I can see a way for an implement to cut
without an agent.

This was illuminating. Up till now it never occured to me to use gau
tag. I think I will use it much now for many of those -gau lujvo. :)

co'o mi'e. goran.


--
GAT/CS/O d?@ H s:-@ !g p1(2)@ !au(0?) a- w+(+++) (!)v-@(+) C++(++++)
UU/H(+) P++>++++ L(>+) !3 E>++ N+ K(+) W--(---) M-- !V(--) -po+ Y(+)
t+@(+++) !5 !j R+@ G-@(J++) tv+(++) b++@ D++ B? e+* u@ h!$ f?(+) r--
!n(+@) y+. GeekCode v2.1, modifications left to reader to puzzle out