Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0t8K9u-0000ZQC; Thu, 26 Oct 95 06:43 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 6A4CB53B ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 5:43:18 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 18:50:55 EDT Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Subject: Re: rel clause paper X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 921 Lines: 26 And: > > 1) la nanmu poi terpa le ke'a xirma ku > > Man Afraid Of His Horse > > 2) la nanmu ku poi terpa le ke'a xirma > > the person named "Man" who is afraid of his horse. > Yes, this is what I was after. Now, is (1) possible with a cmevla > instead of "nanmu", as in: > > 3) la frederik poi terpa le kea xirma ku > Frederick-afraid-of-his-horse The {ku} is grammatical there but irrelevant, it is the terminator of {le ke'a xirma ku}. (In (1), a second {ku} would be needed to make the point.) {la cmen.} does not use a {ku}, so there is no distinction between inside and outside the nonexistent {ku}. You could say {la poi terpa le ke'a xirma ku'o frederik}, but that is just a very long name: {la poiterpaleke'axirmaku'ofrederik}, with no visible inner structure. The only way to combine meaningful words with cmene that I'm aware of is using {zei}: {la fred zei xirterpa}. Jorge