From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Nov 14 23:44:12 1995 Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id XAA02803 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:44:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199511150444.XAA02803@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 99B61308 ; Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:58:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:56:33 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: loglan reform conlangs To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Status: OR And wrote: >If you read Conlang, you'll see that the loglans have had an impact, to >the extent that the preferred starting point for sketches of new >experimental languages is now predicate logic rather than Latin. Yes, but... A major disadvantage of trying to start from Lojban and build a reform is that by implication you have to outdo our effort (just as in order to be credible, the Lojban effort had to outdo the level of detail and design that JCB provided), or you have to come across as a half-designed reform-clone by saying "do this and that and the other, and then do like Lojban for all the rest." My commitment to create a thorough prescrription for the language means that (with a modicum of luck). Lojban will not face much competition from half-designed overnight rivals - a problem Esperanto has been plagued with because it is too easy to design another Euroclone. And designing another Lojban-level design, EVEN if much is based on Lojban as we have based much on JCB's work, would take many man-years (think about how long it takes even to do a new gismu list alone if you are going to credibly examine the places structures of each gismu - my most recent reviews took months). This gives Lojban a considerable breathing room, with rather less likelihood for schism than some conlangs. The workload to schism is just too much. Then you need the crucible of 100-odd Lojban-Listers banging on the language for another 5 years once you have the language basics done, in order to PROVE that your new design will hold up. The impact that I hope we have most had on the conlang world is that: thoroughness of design has become a minimum criterion for success. (The second impact we are trying for - not yet resolved while Klingon and TLI Loglan survive - is that "ownership" of a language is not viable.) lojbab