Message-Id: <m0tGDlW-0000ZTC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 16 Nov 1995 16:27:31 -0700
Reply-To:     Chris Bogart <cbogart@QUETZAL.COM>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         Chris Bogart <cbogart@QUETZAL.COM>
Subject:      How jai and tu'a work
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 4068
Lines: 106

Here's my understanding of how {jai} and {tu'a} work -- I want to write this
out to clarify it in my own mind and also help people who are trying to
figure it out themselves...

(BTW this was motivated by And's questions about it, but I've written it for
a more general audience.  It probably duplicates stuff John Cowan has
written for the reference grammar -- if you want the real thing read that.)

I'll do this by example, with English glosses for everything.  Round
parenthesis () help clarify structure in the glosses.


Start with {bapli}, whose place structure is "x1 (event) forces x2 (event)
to happen"

   lenu la lojbab. cu minde kei   bapli   lenu mi'o tavla bau la lojban kei
   (the event of Lojbab commands) forces (the event of me-you talk in Lojban)

In a context where everybody knows what's being talked about, we can leave
out some details like so:

   tu'a la lojbab.               bapli    lenu mi'o tavla bau la lojban.
   (some event concerning Lojbab) forces  (the event of me-you talk in Lojban)

{bapli} requires an event, not just a name, in it's x1 place.  {tu'a} is a
tag you can stick on a sumti that means "make a whole phrase, using this
sumti in some way -- exactly what it should be depends on context".

The sentence probably means "Lojbab's commands force us to talk in Lojban",
but in the right context it could mean "The fact that Nora threatens to drop
a water balloon on Lojbab, forces us to talk in Lojban", or something even
more unlikely.

Of course you can apply {tu'a} to any place, so for example:

   tu'a la lojbab.            bapli      tu'a la lojban.
   (some event conc. lojbab) forces     (some event conc. Lojban)

or

   tu'a la lojbab.            bapli      tu'a mi'o
   (some event conc. lojbab)  forces     (some event conc. me-you)

Either one could be clear from context; I imagine the first is better if
you're clarifying exactly what language Lojbab is forcing us to speak, and
the second is better if you're clarifying exactly who it is that Lojbab is
making speak Lojban.

JAI

{jai} does the same thing as {tu'a}, except it only works for the x1 place.
You stick it onto the selbri rather than the x1 sumti.  So our sentence
would become:

   la lojbab.          jai bapli                 lenu mi'o tavla bau la lojban.
   Lojbab.   (well, some event conc. him)forces  (event of we speak Lojban)


So {jai} is more limited because it can only affect the x1 place.  However,
it has two advantages:

1) you can use it within a sumti:

        le jai bapli be lenu mi'o tavla bau la lojban
        The one who forces us to speak lojban

2) You can bring the abstraction back in with {fai} if you want:

    la lojbab. jai bapli lenu mi'o tavla bau la ly. fai lenu la lojbab. minde
     (---------same as before----------------------) (Lojbab commands us)

This is redundant, though -- since we've got Lojbab there twice, it would be
perfectly clear to drop the second "la lojbab." out of the sentence.


JAI BAI

Don't confuse that use of {jai} with this use:

   la lojbab. jai bai tavla la lojban
   Lojbab is the forcer of [someone] speaking lojban.

When there's a BAI cmavo after {jai}, it's a shorthand for:

   bai la lojbab.    zo'e tavla la lojban.
   forced by lojbab, someone speaks lojban.

When used this way, {jai} just takes some preposition-like BAI place and
makes it become the x1 of the selbri.  Just like with the other use of
{jai}, though, you can get at the original x1 by using {fai}...

   la lojbab      jai bai tavla           la lojban    fai mi
   Lojbab       forces-the-speaking-of     Lojban       by me

JAI BAI is particularly fun because, like plain JAI, you can use it to make
noun phrases in a way that's fairly foriegn to English usage.

        {le jai bai tavla} = "the one who forces people to speak".
        {le jai cau cevni} = "the one without a god".
        {le jai vega'a rarna} = "the conditions under which nature is observed".


                     ____
 Chris Bogart        \  /  http://www.quetzal.com
 Boulder, CO          \/   cbogart@quetzal.com