Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tK7Fk-0000ZUC; Mon, 27 Nov 95 19:22 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id B716740B ; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 18:22:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 12:25:35 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Re: buffer vowel X-To: Lojban List To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199511251351.IAA06695@locke.ccil.org> from "Logical Language Group" at Nov 25, 95 08:38:20 am Content-Length: 1153 Lines: 26 la lojbab. cusku di'e > I had been guessing that a voiceless bilabial trill was akin to a > voiceless "Bronx cheer"/"raspberry", and I can't imagine how to do one > of those voicelessly %^) (much less multiple times in a sentence). > Maybe my image of a "trill" is incorrect. Almost. A razzberry (we've discussed the spelling before) is an ejective voiceless bilabial trill, because it uses only the air already trapped in the mouth. A plain voiceless [B] would be something like [p], but releasing the airstream in a sputter rather than smoothly. In any event, ejective is incompatible with voicing AFAIK. (Some razzberries are ejective voiceless interdental trills, to be sure.) > I'd be surprised if someone hasn't invented a joke conlang with /belch/ as a > phoneme. Hmm. Voiceless belch. Belchal fricative. Yep, I've heard > these before! Moundsbar has the voiced snore, but as far as I know not the belch. In any event, belches are neither voiced nor voiceless, but use the "pseudo-voice" used by people with laryngectomies. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban.