Message-Id: <199511161941.OAA23679@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Thu, 16 Nov 1995 20:25:57 MET
Reply-To: Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Subject:      Re: buffer vowel
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

No, no, no. You misunderstand me. I am not discussing theory, but
experience. While I don't know many Chinese, my Chinese language
professor's family is a good sample. It took him half a year of practice
to be able to pronounce Cro word "mrkva" satisfactorily instead of
mylygyva (me1le1ge1va4). To a native Cro speaker, mylygyva is still
recognisable, if he tries to listen what is being said. But he really
had major difficulties in pronouncing C clusters, and he still has to
buffer. His wife still can't say "r", pronounces the word "hvala",
meaning "thanks", as "xy,ua,la", etc. That is not orthography making
problems, but 50 years of drilling in Chinese phonology. I don't know
how many native Chinese have you people talked to, and how much
opportunity did they have at the occasion to pronounce 3- or 4-C
clusters. My sample is admittedly not big enough, but I dare generalize
nevertheless. I'm not saying that no Chinese can pronounce C clusters,
but that some, if not most, would need some heavy buffering.

co'o mi'e. goran.

P.S. Okay , maybe he doesn't say me1le1ge1va4. Maybe he says actually
mer1ge1va4. Doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying.

--
GAT/CS/O d?@ H s:-@ !g p1(2)@ !au(0?) a- w+(+++) (!)v-@(+) C++(++++)
UU/H(+) P++>++++ L(>+) !3 E>++ N+ K(+) W--(---) M-- !V(--) -po+ Y(+)
t+@(+++) !5 !j R+@ G-@(J++) tv+(++) b++@ D++ B? e+* u@ h!$ f?(+) r--
!n(+@) y+. GeekCode v2.1, modifications left to reader to puzzle out