Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA27131 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 11:07:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199511241607.LAA27131@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 8FBEAAF9 ; Fri, 24 Nov 1995 1:13:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 14:21:29 -0800 Reply-To: "Peter L. Schuerman" Sender: Lojban list From: "Peter L. Schuerman" Subject: Re: your mail X-To: "Steven M. Belknap" To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Fri Nov 24 11:07:41 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Steven M. Belknap wrote: > But Peter still fails to set an independent, nonsubjective criteria for > distinguishing hills from mountains or heaps from nonheaps. Peter seems to > be using the same approach Ed Meese used to define pornography, "I know it > when I see it." Surely language, even natlangs, can accomplish more than > that! It is certainly possible to define terms and concepts. It's just that words like baldness and tallness are *already* defined. And those definitions are true-false terms, which don't involve counting hairs or measuring inches of height. You are either tall or not-tall. Constructions like "tallish" or "sort of tall" or "very tall" don't change this fact. If you ask someone if Joe is tall, they can answer yes, no, or they can say "tallish". But "tallish" doesn't really convey more information than if the person said "Well, he was of a height which made it difficult for me to say for certain." These "fuzzy" words simply convey uncertainty. Fuzzy logic puts numbers on levels of uncertainty and pretends it's a new science. Haven't fuzzy logicians heard of statistics? If you want to use the word "tall" in a logical way, it has to be defined. If two people are both aware of the definition, then communication can occur. Similarly, if you want to use the word "pornography" in a communicative way, it is important to explain your criteria to any listeners if there is a chance that they may have different views. Peter Schuerman plschuerman@ucdavis.edu Co-editor, SPECTRA Online for back issues: http://www.well.com/user/phandaal/