From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Fri Nov  3 23:41:51 1995
Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM ([205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id SAA11285 for <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:18:43 -0500
Message-Id: <199511022318.SAA11285@locke.ccil.org>
Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 02C5E91A ; Thu, 2 Nov 1995 19:15:18 -0400
Date:         Thu, 2 Nov 1995 18:11:20 EST
Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Almost & barely
X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: John Cowan <cowan@locke.ccil.org>
Status: OR
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
Content-Length:  2651


And:
> > How do we say these in Lojban:
> >        I touched it.
> >        I barely touched it.
> >        I almost touched it.
>
> (1) Either (a) it shd be something that modifies the selbri, semantically,
> so not something from UI, or (b) it should be along the lines of Steve's
> suggestion, i.e. a specification of degrees of truth, so, I guess,
> should be new additions to selmao NA.

I thought that something in NAhE would fit nicely:

je'a      NAhE     scalar affirmer; denies scalar negation: Indeed!
xu'e               scalar affirmer/quasi-negator: barely
xa'u               scalar negator/quasi-affirmer: almost
no'e      NAhE     midpoint scalar negator: "not really"
to'e      NAhE     polar opposite scalar negator
na'e      NAhE     contrary scalar negator: other than ...; not ...;


> (2) But one might hope that the solution would generalize to
> "almost 30 people" (e.g. 29) and "barely 30 people" (e.g. 31).

So it would: {xa'ubo cino prenu}, {xu'ebo cino prenu}.

[{xu'e} and {xa'u} stand for the possible {ju'e} and {ja'u}.]


> (3) {soa} seems to have the aptest meaning such that it might be the
> acorn from which a solution may sprout.

I can't see how.

> (4) "barely" and "almost" denote regions on a linear scale that
> has 0 in the middle with positive and negative on either side.
> "almost" is slightly negative, nearly positive, and "barely" is
> slightly positive, nearly negative.

Yes, I think the critical notion is the proximity to the other side.


> (5) As Chris has sort of said, one might also wish for a way to specify
> which domain such a scale applies to. A famous example is "you almost
> killed me": it can mean "you almost did something that caused me to die",
> (e.g. you were going to pull the trigger but thought better of it at
> the last minute) or "you did something that almost caused me to die"
> (the bullet whizzed past my head) or "you did something that caused me to
> almost die" (the bullet pierced a lung and it was touch and go but I
> pulled through).

Well, you are decomposing "kill" and assigning "almost" to each
component. You could do the same with {xa'u}:

        do xa'u catra mi
        You almost killed me.

        do xa'u gasnu da poi rinka le nu mi morsi
        You almost did something that caused that I die.

        do gasnu da poi xa'u rinka le nu mi morsi
        You did something that almost caused that I die.

        do gasnu da poi rinka le nu mi xa'u morsi
        You did something that caused that I almost die.

{xa'u catra} could be any of them, just like in English.

Jorge