Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tFoU1-0000ZTC; Wed, 15 Nov 95 22:31 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 1F006CDA ; Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:31:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:27:52 -0700 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: buffer vowel X-To: lojban@cuvmb.bitnet To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 22 tu'a la goran: >... But the Chinese, on the other >hand, could have big problems with C clusters. OK, I can understand that >many people can't pronounce (jboselci'a) XR,vatska, and say kroeica or >kroAti,en or something like that instead. But the poor people can't say >even that, they actually say KXY,LUO,DI,YA (Ke4Luo2Di4Ya4), and the >two-syllable long name of my city, Zagreb, that even the English >speaking folk pronounce without any difficulty, Chinese translate into >SA,GY,LY,BU (Sa4Ge4Le4Bu4), a four-syllable name. They just can't cope >with C clusters. Is that really true? I think there's a big difference between the version of a word made to fit local phononolgy, and what the speakers are actually capable of producing when they set their minds to it. The only time I've heard really extreme, unintelligible vowel buffering is when a student (I taught English in Japan) would be embarrassed about speaking a foriegn language in front of a class and would deliberately japanesify all the words. But even-slightly-motivated students could make themselves quite understandable. ____ Chris Bogart \ / http://www.quetzal.com Boulder, CO \/ cbogart@quetzal.com