Message-Id: <199511151311.IAA21824@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:06:11 GMT
Reply-To: Don Wiggins <dwiggins@BFSEC.BT.CO.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Don Wiggins <dwiggins@BFSEC.BT.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Some comments to mark,l
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

coi do

> > No one besides us wacky Americans would ever need succinct compounds for
> > math test (cmaci, mathematics, no short rafsi),
>
> English does not need a compound and does just fine. Croatian, my native
> language, requires the phrase "ispit iz matematike" (8 syllables, gets
> one more in declension)

I think it is important to keep in mind that it is not necessary to lujvo-ise
everything in sight.  A succinct tanru is as useful as a compacted lujvo, in
fact I would say the tanru would be clearer in many circumstances.  I don't
think that having compounds which are, say, 2 syllables instead of 4 is that
significant to a language.

> > flyswatter
>
> I
> don't even think we have the word for it, though we have it at home. We
> just never speak about it.

Is there a culture taboo to talking about flies? ;-)

> > hour-long (cacra, hour, no short rafsi),
>
> just
> {cacra} (2). I am satisfied.

Yep, that spot on.

> > tin can
>
> Is "tin can" an idiom in English, or is it really important to impart to
> your listeners that the can in question is made from tin? Most of them
> are, anyway, so it is not much of an information. I have never yet been
> in a situation where I would have to explicate the material of a can, and
> if I ever am I would gladly use tanru.

Yes, "tin can" is idiomatic.  The fact is that tin is too expensive to make
tins with, so they are actually steel coated with a layer of tin.  Tin is
what I would in English.  "tinci sefta gaste lante" (tin surfaced steel can - I
haven't got my gi'uste handy) would be definitive.

> > high tide
>
> Again, why bother with lujvo? English doesn't have one word, and English
> has the biggest vocabulary in the world, I think, or at least very close
> to that. Why in the world would you want one word for expressing high tide?
> By the way, high tide is not something I would use ctaru for at all:
> {lo xamsi sefta cu galtu}. ctaru describes the process of rising and
> falling of the level of the water, and I am unable to see how to get to
> the individual parts of that process using that word.

I would use "galjimte ctaru" (high-limit tide), I think that "ctaru" is needed
to express what is making the sea move.

> > car seat
>
> Here you might have a point, if you insist on having lujvo. tanru works
> good for me here.

Tanru.

> > salt pan
>
> That I don't even know what it means is a rather good assessment of the
> frequency of usage. I know that this sounds egocentrical, but I wouldn't
> be boasting to say that I read more English books than most
> English-speaking folk. I have never encountred 'salt pan'. Could you,
> please, tell me what it is?

Yep, I've never salt pan either.

> > flagpole
>
> Another word I can't find Croatian equivalent for. How often do you use
> it? Could you give me a context for example?

"lanci kamju" (flag column), you know, the big white stick that supports a
flag ;-)

I think that it is important not to get obsessed with super-short compounds
lojban works without the need to go overboard.

co'o mi'e dn.