Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tEXU8-0000ZTC; Sun, 12 Nov 95 10:09 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 170EECCD ; Sun, 12 Nov 1995 9:09:52 +0100 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 03:13:04 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Re: TECH: lambda and "ka" revisited To: Lojban List In-Reply-To: from "cowan" at Nov 8, 95 12:25:29 pm Content-Length: 1464 Lines: 45 mi pu cusku di'e la dn. > [W]hat you say suggests > that there needs to be an explicit "anti-ka" operator that unwraps a property > and makes it a selbri. (This is not "ckaji", because "ckaji" only tolerates > a one-place abstraction; this is a way of saying "x1, x2, x3 fit into the > property abstraction [whatever]"). I'll mull this over. Having duly mulled, I am ready to propose a PLACE STRUCTURE CHANGE: an extension of "ckaji" from the current two-place structure to an indefinite-number-of-places structure, adding to the current definition a new line: x1 stands in relation x2 (ka) to x3, x4, ... (as many places as x2 requires) This would allow, in addition to the vague 1) la djim. ckaji le ka bruna Jim has the property-of brotherhood and the asymmetrical 2) la djim. ckaji le ka bruna la djan. Jim has the property-of (brotherhood to-John) and 3) la djan. ckaji le ka bruna la djim. John has the property-of (brotherhood to-Jim) the new symmetrical: 4) la djan. ckaji le ka bruna kei la djim. John has the property-of (brotherhood) with-respect-to-Jim At present, the only other indefinite-number-of-places gismu is "jutsi", so there is some precedent; OTOH, it's late in the game for gismu definition changes, because of the dictionary. What do yall think? -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban.