Message-Id: <199511292034.PAA12962@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 1995 20:01:18 +0000
Reply-To: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: self-descriptions?
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR

> >> >{citno bao kei bao ralju}, or
> >> >{citno me kei bao ralju}, or {citno zio kei bao ralju}
> >> Are those even grammatical?
> >As far as I know they are.
> I can't even guess what you're trying to do. {kei} is a close-bracket
> for selma'o NU, which you never use in your three "ugly solutions".
> Maybe you've made a typo or something and I'm just not seeing what
> you meant...?

Sorry. My brain must have gone haywire. Or haywirer. I meant **{zei}**!

> >> Or you ought to be able to use zei: {citno ba'o zei ralju} or {ba'o zei
> >> citno ralju}.
> >The second is "president who is no longer young". How to get "person
> >who is no longer a young president"?
> hm.... you can't do {ba'o zei ke citno ralju}, can you?

Well, I think you need {bao zei .anyoldcrap. ke citno ralju}.
It's not pretty.

> >But why is this harder than usage without FA (i.e. in normal
> >x1, x2, x3 ... order)?
> FA-scrambling requires more syllables than normal order, so normal
> order is favored by the syntax.  So naturally lazy syllable-hating
> lojbanis will use normal order more often, and be more used to hearing
> it.  Listening to language structures you are used to is easier than
> unfamiliar ones, and the normal order will be the most familiar vau ba'a.

Sure. I originally asked "Is the difficulty due to anything other than
unfamiliarity?", and the answer seems to be No.

---
And