Message-Id: <m0tJ18f-0000ZUC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Fri, 24 Nov 1995 15:40:52 +0000
Reply-To:     GALLO VAZQUEZ JOSE RAMON <gallo@GALILEO.FIE.US.ES>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         GALLO VAZQUEZ JOSE RAMON <gallo@GALILEO.FIE.US.ES>
Subject:      serving the needs of Lojban learners
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 3359
Lines: 60

la lojbab. cusku di'e
> I jst posted a long and rambling message.  For those who got bogged down on
> my rambling, I REALLT want to hear from the inactive subcribers to Lojban
> List as to what you would like to see done tro serve your needs better.

Hello, I'm a Spanish novice to Lojban (sorry in advance for my English
and my Lojban). I have been reading the list for about 3 months and won't
unsubscribe despite the sometimes overwhelming level of discussion (I
would be embarrased to post here if not for Lojbab's  invitation).
Though  I'm studying computer science and am interested (but
anyway a novice) in languge and logic, I must skip a significant part of the
traffic, but this doesn't bother me: I find it very interesting anyway, and
my understanding of certain subjects has been somewhat increased. I've
also been using some (I think most) of the available teaching and reference
materials, and found them useful.

I am very interested in Lojban, and have so tried to circunvent various
problems which instead would have made me give up. I don't know if my case
is typical at all but anyway here are the handicaps I've found:

- Being an isolated learner. This inevitably leads to long term progress
stops since it's sometimes very boring to work alone, specially while
learning languages. I have access to very proficient people (like xorxes) but
it would be nice to get in touch with other learners at my level
and try to communicate in our level of Lojban. I think this would help me
(and others) maintain interest. I think Lojbab's ideas in this aspect are
interesting. The mailing list has anyway been useful to make my isolation
less profound.

-The teaching materials. They have been useful to me, but it has been hard
anyway to navigate through the draft introductions, and the draft lessons.
I am now reading the refgrammar materials, which is being even harder because
they are very concentrated, more consulting than teaching material, I think.
In fact IMO, there is no available teaching material that anybody
only partially interested in Lojban may use (that is, the effort needed to
progress will scare anybody who isn't *very, very* interested in Lojban,
though I may be wrong on this).

-Another more subtle handicap: when I first got subscribed to the mailing
list I got the feeling of small-closed-group because of the high level
of discussion and the relatively few number of people actively participating.
I'm not criticizing this :), only pointing that it may (and will) frighten
interested people. The solution is not clear but IMO
pass once more by splitting levels of proficience. I think the quality of
the mailing list discussion shouldn't be disturbed by mailings such as this
:). Again, some of Lojbab's solutions could serve. Also we should try to
increase the number of lojbanists (I don't know how many there are already
but surely there should be more people in the world interested in a
project such as this; we only have to find them). But this is probably
harder than it sounds.

There are undoubtedly many other difficulties, but I think this has been
long enough and anyway these have been the most important in my case.
Finally, sorry for this too long and out-of-the-subject posting.

co'o mi'e. xoses.

Jose Ramon Gallo Vazquez
Sevilla, Spain.
To write don't Reply, but Send to gallo%galileo.fie@cs.us.es