Message-Id: <m0tIkKu-0000ZUC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 23 Nov 1995 17:39:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: self-descriptions?
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1356
Lines: 29

And:
> > > {mi se xi pa nundraci kelci}. But I don't think your preferences
> > ji'a I don't understand the second, either. Why sexipa? Isn't that the
> > same as {mi nundraci kelci}?
> I thought {se xi pa} gives the x6 place. x6 of {nundraci} is the actor.

I don't know what is the official convention, but I think I prefer Goran's:
{sexipa}=nothing, {sexire}={se}, {sexici}={te},...and {sexixa} to get to x6.


> > > fi la pou lojbab ralju fe lei jai fau skicu be fo lo jbovla bei fe
> > > maa bei fai ro da poi kea me maa bei fi da fa diu tinbe
> > =The rule made by Chief lojbab about all of us describing us to others in
> > lojban with these words is obeyed.
> > I spent 5 to 10 minutes translating this jufra! What an obfuscation!
> Well done, then. Why did you find it difficult? It's in an unfamiliar
> style, but there isn't lots of deep subordination and tons of terminators
> and stuff.

All those FAs and be-beis count as tons of "stuff".

I agree with Goran. Fi-fa-fu-Lojban is very obfuscating, especially in
combination with jaifau-Lojban. {le jaifau} in your use means the same
as {le nu}, but with (at least) three disadvantages: (1) It is longer,
(2) the x1 of the main selbri gets kicked out to the fai-place, and worse
of all (3) all the arguments have to be be-bei-linked. What possible
advantage offsets these disadvantages?

Jorge