Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tL6x8-0000ZUC; Thu, 30 Nov 95 13:14 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id EE3C1AC4 ; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:14:58 +0100 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 06:12:51 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: ZAhO and tanru X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1383 Lines: 38 And: >[Lojbab: >> Fine, use brivla. Tenses apply to whole bridi. > >This is a pretty ugly solution: {citno bao kei bao ralju}, or {citno me >kei bao ralju}, or {citno zio kei bao ralju} - they're all ugly. >Semantically, ZAhO works quasitanruishly, like NAhE, so I think it >oughtn't to apply to whole bridi.] I oughta let pc speak on this. The underlying concept in Lojban is that all tenses are in a sense an abbreviation for a second subordinate bridi that restricts the main bridi to a particular range of space/time, after the manner of BAI and fi'o + bridi. Thus, modifying your expression: da ba'o citno turnyjatna nunturni x is in the aftermath of the young president governing could transform into something like da citno turnyjatna nunturni x is a young president governing .i le cabna cu bavlamji lenu go'i The space-time reference is immediately after the previosu event. I thus might to "young ex-president" as lo citno ke prulamji turnyjatna The young immediately-preceding president. assuming per your example that you are referring to a just-out-of-office person, which is not implicit in the original English (for which purci would be fine). ZAhO SHOULD NOT work quasi-tanruishly - they should work tensishly. Use the tense-based gismu (and lujvo for ZAhOs - there might be some validity to an argument that they should be assigned gismu as well) lojbab