Return-Path: Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tG7As-0000ZVC; Thu, 16 Nov 95 18:28 EET Message-Id: Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 68D3B7E1 ; Thu, 16 Nov 1995 17:28:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:25:19 -0800 Reply-To: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jim Carter Subject: Re: TECH: PROPOSED CHANGE 37: Relative Clauses before names X-To: lojban@cuvmb.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 15 Nov 95 17:24:59 EST." <9511152227.AA10867@julia.math.ucla.edu> Content-Length: 1414 Lines: 33 John Cowan writes: > PROPOSED CHANGE #37 > > Allow relative clauses between LA or DOI and a CMENE. Also allow relative > clauses after "DOI CMENE" or "DOI relative-clauses CMENE". No question in my mind that this is necessary (I vote yes). How would one handle a predicate name with imbedded sumti? Or imbedded UI? It would be most "logical" that arguments, decorations, modal phrases and subordinate clauses attach to the argument selbri the same on a name as on any other kind of selbri, but as noted in the proposal, subphrases might be an integral part of the name or might be gratuitous additions. So perhaps the rule should be that all ADMPSC before the selbri are integral, and all after are semantic. Bizarre example, perhaps kid's teasing: ta cmene la fe lo toldi ku kalte be fi le nu citka His name is Hunter of Butterflies (for eating) {toldi-butterflies} is an integral part of the name, while {le nu citka} is a sumti within sumti, but is very gratuitously added. ([todkalte} would be better if you're thinking what to name your kid. I'm not even going to try to give an example of an imbedded UI. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu (finger for PGP key) UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc