From LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Sat Mar 6 22:45:25 2010 Reply-To: Jorge Llambias Sender: Lojban list Date: Thu Dec 21 00:51:16 1995 From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: misc responses to Jorge from last month, esp. SEI To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu, jorge@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Thu Dec 21 00:51:16 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Message-ID: On {sei krefu} we will have to disagree. If {sei dei krefu} makes sense, then the gismu list should be corrected so that the x1 need not be an event. xorxes: > >I propose that the place structure of {skari} be changed to "x1 is of > >the colour of x2", which is much more useful than the current one. lojbab: > 1. Because the truth condition is indeterminate in that case. Colors > truly are observer and conditions dependent (at least to some people - > other consider color an innate property implicit in the atomic or > molecular structure). > > It is not necessarily true that two things are the same color to all > observers and under all conditions. It is also not true that something is blue to all observers and under all conditions. It is also not true that someone is a person to all observers and under all conditions. I doubt that you can find many gismu that can hold for all observers and under all conditions. > 2. What do you put in x2 for x1 = ultraviolet light, {noda}. As far as I know ultraviolet light is invisible, so it has no colour. Or is skari something different from colour? > or for that matter, > he sun, which has a mixture of several frequencies of light. pe'i le solri cu pelxu i pe'ipei How does the current place structure of skari help here? > The problem is that this has been debated over and over for several > years of Loglan history, inconclusively, and no one can agree as to what > the place structure of color words should be. Between skari and the > individual colors, I tried to cover all bases. Well, you didn't say what is the difference, if any, between {ta skari le ka blanu} and {ta ckaji le ka blanu}. Can you give an example where the current place structure of skari is useful? > BTW, try for x2 putting in hue/brightness/saturation as another > alternative. Could you give examples? I can't make any sense of it. > >> and maybe Nick needs to include > >> a note about these kinds of words. rango, danlu a nd a few others have > >> this problem too. > >{danlu} seems to be perfectly normal, and {rango} is pretty standard > >too. What is the problem with them? > It seems likely that lujvo based on those words might not be intended to > use more than the x1 place. I don't see why. Any lujvo-animal should have a species place, just like all gismu-animals. > ni'o > >PS1: Instead of {ca} I would have preferred to use the proposed new > >ZAhO for "already". > bapu'o or ba'opu'o ??? bapu'o = will be about to. [ca]ba'opu'o = has been about to. Neither of those has the meaning of "already". Jorge