Return-Path: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@vms.dc.LSOFT.COM Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA03557 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 1995 01:20:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199512212320.BAA03557@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi> Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id B376673D ; Fri, 22 Dec 1995 0:20:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:41:30 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Bernard J. Ortcutt X-To: Lojban List To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199512211928.OAA20888@locke.ccil.org> from "ucleaar" at Dec 21, 95 06:39:00 pm Content-Length: 1248 Lines: 34 la .and. joi mi cusku be di'e casnu > > Ralph believes that Ortcutt is a spy (transparent) > > da poi kea me la ortcutt zou la ralf krici kuau da mipzga > > > and > > Ralph believes that Ortcutt is no spy (opaque) > > la ralf krici kuau da poi kea me la ortcutt zou da mipzga Not quite. That trick works for "Ralph believes there are spies" (i.e. "Ralph believes ((Ex) (x is a spy))") versus "Ralph believes someone is a spy" (i.e. "((Ex) Ralph believes (x is a spy)"). But since "Ortcutt" refers to Ortcutt with all his properties, it doesn't matter whether you bind "da" inside or outside the opaque context: Ralph simply does believe both that Ortcutt is a spy and that he isn't, due to his false belief that Ortcutt and the sneaky man are not identical. The worst version of this (all of which comes from Quine, BTW) is the full-fledged paradox of belief: we believe that each of our beliefs is true (since to believe P is to believe that P is true), and we also believe that some of our beliefs, we know not which, are in fact false. Rationality is simply not to be expected in this arena. > > --- > And > -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban.