Return-Path: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@vms.dc.LSOFT.COM Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA11650 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 08:19:25 +0200 Message-Id: <199512240619.IAA11650@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi> Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 9E30F13F ; Sun, 24 Dec 1995 7:19:25 +0100 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 00:25:02 PST Reply-To: Bill Bottenberg Sender: Lojban list From: Bill Bottenberg Subject: Re: seldanfu: retry2 X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1883 Lines: 58 la kris cuska >(Translation follows at end) >roci le notci fi do ca'a se benji .i le liste selpla cu na benji da le ve benji > >>le jipci goi purci loi jipci i. le jipcyso'a goi ko'e purci loi jipyso'a > >le jipci na'e purci loi jipci .i le jipci cu se gunma loi jipci > >>.i ko'a purci ko'e gi'i ko'e purci ko'a > > > purci fa ko'a ko'e gi'i purci fa ko'e ko'a >mi'e kris. > > >All 3 of your messages did get sent. The mail software does not send >messages back to the sender. > >Individual chickens can't precede Chickendom; they're members of Chickendom. just so > >That's not grammatically correct. How about this: > > Does chickendom precede eggdom or eggdom precede chickendom? > >In my opinion they're simultaneous. yup, I missed the usage of purci, until after I posted. also, thanks for the info on the mail software. I was receiving back mss with every other line deleted. Odd. I think that Darwin has answered the question and I have been wrestling with stating it logically and then lojbanically, I think I have the logic part right, now I struggle with the lojban consider the set of present-day-chicken ancestors, X consider the subset of chicken ancestors that are not chickens, Y there is a member y of Y such that at least one member of x is a 'child' of y and all members of X not in x's brood are descendants of x (theory of evolution says: this condition happened at least once, there is probably only one event like this) the egg of y is of some type, Y-like-ness, but not chicken the hatchling of y is a chicken, x the eggs of x are of type-chicken (three ways this can happen, but all give same result) therefore chicken came first, before eggs-of-type-chicken this is the lojbanic answer since the X2 of sovda refers to the species of the parent. This almost looks like language structure forcing an interpretation.