From LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Sat Mar 6 22:46:20 2010 Reply-To: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster Sender: Lojban list Date: Wed Dec 20 12:16:29 1995 Comments: W: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: W: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. Comments: E: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: E: Original tag data was -> haldane From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster Subject: Re: lojban changes (were Dialectology and Grammar change and...) X-To: pcliffje@CRL.COM To: John Cowan In-Reply-To: from "John E. Clifford" at Dec 19, 95 03:43:50 pm Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Wed Dec 20 12:16:29 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Message-ID: > So, yes, the needed > Lojban community does hinge on getting a refgram and a > dictionary into people's hands -- until that happens, the most > reliable folks are not going to join in. > > { very good points snipped for brevity's sake } > > So my suggestion is publish and be damned (Wellington). Solving today's > problems will not make the published text more problem-free and may (as we > have seen with earlier fixes) end up making matters worse a couple of > years down the line, when the data really comes in. But, with a fixed > target, the data can be generated by a significantly sized community of > serious learners and the first round of reforms -- in five or so years > (hopefully longer, or sooner for overwhelming reasons) -- will be the > better for it. I suggest that the list for that first reform begins, say, > September 1, 1995. We can live with guheks (well, I'm not sure I can) and > without fuzzy fussiness for a while, as we have these 40 or 8 years. And > we can have plenty of time to build our cases for this and that, ready for > January 1, 2001 and the millennium. (Sure, I'd like to see some of the > things I *know* are missing added, but I can wait and get them even > righter in five years.) Here. here. Let's stop arguing, start using, and let Lojbab, et.al., get the "textbook" out there for others to see and *use*. Those of us that notice needed changes, ought to work carefully on getting our proposals carefully worded and tested to make sure that they don't break the language in other ways. They can even be used by you in the interim, perhaps as part of the testing. Then int 5+ years, when we have a sizable body of speakers, Lojban Central (which might not be Lojbab then) can say "Based on your *usage* over the past few years, what changes are *essential* to make to the language to actually make it fully usable?" Bob Slaughter Model railroad enthusiast haldane@iglou.com lojban language learner Technical Support Services Iglou Internet Services 1-800-I-DO-IGLOU see http://www.iglou.com/haldane (1-800-436-4456)