From LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Sat Mar 6 22:46:02 2010 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list Date: Sat Dec 23 00:56:37 1995 From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: misc responses to Jorge from last month, esp. SEI X-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: OR X-From-Space-Date: Sat Dec 23 00:56:37 1995 X-From-Space-Address: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Message-ID: <_4Y6N2T_XyN.A.XxF.qu0kLB@chain.digitalkingdom.org> > >Then they would be {blanu bancu} and {xunre bancu}, I suppose. How >does the current {skari} place structure help? One possibility (the easiest) is to define colors in terms of light frequencies and ranges thereof, in which case the x2 of skari could be a frequency range measurement sumti. >There is no tanru here. {ta ckaji le ka [ke'a] blanu} means that {ta blanu}, >doesn't it? > Modulo your use of ke'a %^) I think they are similar. But I am not sure. A red and black ball might be ckaji but not skari le ka xunre, perhaps? I think of characteristics as being more loosely used to some extent. Of course the current place structure of skari includes the x3 and x4 which defintely makes them different. But I get the nagging suspicions that ta ckaji le ka blanu is less about the fact that ta blanu as it is about a manifesting of a property by ta. (there are also the related gismu for "innate" and "behavior" that can be compared with ckaji). >Those people can make a technical lujvo if they wish. Gismu are not supposed >to be for overtechnical concepts. I agree. But then we still have to answer the question "what is "blue"" that they and others will ask. In the meantime, they will indeed build a lujvo, but it will be off of skari. The thing is that we do not define colors necessarily in terms of being the same as some object of that color - we may not KNOW of an object of the appropriate color, so your proposed definition falls short of what is needed, even if the current one is abit nebulous. >You could do the same with the simpler "x1 is the colour of x2" definition. >Then you put lo broda be li hue pi'e brightness pi'e saturation in the x2 >place. This sounds like you are just using the x1 and the x2 places of the current skari, just wording x2 a little differently. But you can say anything with the current definition that you can say with that formulation, since the current one is a superset of that one. (if I understand you). lojbab