Return-Path: LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@vms.dc.LSOFT.COM Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id XAA03298 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 23:54:53 +0200 Message-Id: <199512212154.XAA03298@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi> Received: from listmail.sunet.se by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id CD70ACBD ; Thu, 21 Dec 1995 22:54:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: Bernard J. Ortcutt X-To: Lojban List To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199512211655.LAA16392@locke.ccil.org> from "John E. Clifford" at Dec 21, 95 08:19:04 am Content-Length: 985 Lines: 24 mi pu cusku di'e > Ralph believes that Ortcutt is a spy (transparent) > and > Ralph believes that Ortcutt is no spy (opaque) la pycyn. cusku di'e > Gee, I would have labelled them just the opposite in the context. I > can pull the "Orcutt" out to the front of the second without Ralph > protesting at all. But Ralph -- before he is enlightened -- would > surely protest to pulling out the first, indeed, would protest to the > first altogether. What you say is right as far as it goes; however, the point is not what Ralph is disposed to assent to, but what is true. The first claim is true, and any expression synonymous with "Ortcutt" may be substituted for it; the second claim is true only if "Ortcutt" is understood to be opaque or semi-opaque ("pillar of the community" would do as a substitute, but not "man sneaking around on the beach", e.g.). -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org e'osai ko sarji la lojban.