From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Sun Jan 28 07:02:33 1996 Received: from wnt.dc.lsoft.com (wnt.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.7]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id HAA26102 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:02:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281202.HAA26102@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by wnt.dc.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.0a) with SMTP id 7CD46D60 ; 28 Jan 1996 6:04:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:51:49 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: PLI: Cultural gismu To: topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2059 >> And that latter point is why I don't feel it is out of line to have skoto >> cover both Irish and Scottish culture. If one decides to permit it to >> cover Irish culture, one then makes lujvo to cover not only Irish, but also >> the >> other cultures that will contrast with Irish, so as to leave the gismu more >> likely to be a general term. > >.i ie .i ku'i mi stidi lenu zoi gi'uste Gaelic/Scottish gi'uste goi ko'a >noi ca xe fanva be zo skoto keiku binxo zoi gi'uste Celtic gi'uste >.ija'ebo lo'i skoto cu selcmi lai alb. .e lai .eir. .e lai keltiber. .e >lai gal. .e loi drata .imu'ibo loi sicko'o noi skotrneire na pe'i me >ko'a > >Yes, but I think we should change the gismu definition from >"Gaelic/Scottish" to "Celtic". That would permit {skoto} to include >--More-- >the Scottish and Irish and Celtiberic (?) and Gallic (Gaulic? sp?) >and others. Because, Irish is IMHO definitely not Gaelic/Scottish! This is explicitly mentione din the gismu list. We could change the "definition", but not the keyword (which as you may recall is not necessarily definitional) - the keyword "Scottish" is of course cognate, and the gismu list is baselined. The lack of desire to touch the baselined list (and the closeness this is to a baseline change), and the whoile controversy over culture words in general has led us to leave things the way they were and just put a note in the list. The fact that (Old) Celtic is defined as "ancestral-skoto" should make the intent clear for those not too nationalistic. This actually says something about the nature of Lojban baselines - the gismu list baseline,being much older and more firm than the grammar baseline, and not the subject of a book, is nearly inviolable as to the baseline elements (i.e the keywords and the rafsi). This can be compared to the continued discussability of grammar changes because we haven;t so firmly closed the door. The gismu-list stability is what most of the community seems to want before they will learn the language. lojbab