Message-Id: <199601280952.LAA07159@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:51:49 -0500
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: PLI: Cultural gismu
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2017
Lines: 38

>> And that latter point is why I don't feel it is out of line to have skoto
>> cover both Irish and Scottish culture.  If one decides to permit it to
>> cover Irish culture, one then makes lujvo to cover not only Irish, but also
>> the
>>  other cultures that will contrast with Irish, so as to leave the gismu more
>> likely to be a general term.
>
>.i ie .i ku'i mi stidi lenu zoi gi'uste Gaelic/Scottish gi'uste goi ko'a
>noi ca xe fanva be zo skoto keiku binxo zoi gi'uste Celtic gi'uste
>.ija'ebo lo'i skoto cu selcmi lai alb. .e lai .eir. .e lai keltiber. .e
>lai gal. .e loi drata .imu'ibo loi sicko'o noi skotrneire na pe'i me
>ko'a
>
>Yes, but I think we should change the gismu definition from
>"Gaelic/Scottish" to "Celtic". That would permit {skoto} to include
>--More--
>the Scottish and Irish and Celtiberic (?) and Gallic (Gaulic? sp?)
>and others. Because, Irish is IMHO definitely not Gaelic/Scottish!


This is explicitly mentione din the gismu list.  We could change the
"definition", but not the keyword (which as you may recall is not necessarily
definitional) - the keyword "Scottish" is of course cognate, and the gismu
list is baselined.  The lack of desire to touch the baselined list (and
the closeness this is to a baseline change), and the whoile controversy over
culture words in general has led us to leave things the way they were and
just put a note in the list.  The fact that (Old) Celtic is defined as
"ancestral-skoto" should make the intent clear for those not too nationalistic.

This actually says something about the nature of Lojban baselines - the gismu
list baseline,being much older and more firm than the grammar baseline,
and not the subject of a book, is nearly inviolable as to the baseline
elements (i.e the keywords and the rafsi).  This can be compared to the
continued discussability of grammar changes because we haven;t so firmly
closed the door.  The gismu-list stability is what most of the community seems
to want before they will learn the language.

lojbab