From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Sun Jan 21 23:47:52 1996 Received: from vms.dc.lsoft.com ([205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA09118 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 17:13:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199601202213.RAA09118@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by vms.dc.lsoft.com (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id F18093A8 ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 4:13:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: le'ala'ozo PLI Cultural gismu X-To: dwiggins@BFSEC.BT.CO.UK X-cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1504 >Yes, but there always a cultural gismu at the starting point of these lujvo >which is then restricted. Is it possible to boot-strap the cultural >lujvo solely from "kulno". For instance, "jegvo" could be replaced by >one-god-culture (say) "pamemceiklu". Unfortunately, it really difficult to >imagine X-Y-Z-culture for English or the other nations. This is what I am >trying to get at. OK. How about "west-europe-mountain-culture" for Swiss. I mentioned in another post "skoto joi glico" for modern Scots. You are correct that there usually is some cultural gismu somewhere in the metaphor which is built off of. It is usually but not necessarily restrictive modifcation, but IT NEEDN'T BE. We as English speakers are used to modificatyion usually being restrictive, but this is NOT the only possible kind of tanru modification (I think this is covered in Cowans PLGS paper, or perhaps elsewhere - it was originally in a paper by Ivan Derzhanski, that pointed out the large range of modifications in tanru among the world's languages.) It may be that we are not the ones to best think of non-restrictive tanru. But that does not mean that they cannot or should not exist. But in any event, i WANT the language to grow via lujvo, and NOT via gismu or fu'ivla, as much as is possible. I will tolerate much more looseness in lujvo-making in order to see this happen than, say, thjose who favor dikyjvo (algoirthmic lujvo place structures) might prefer. lojbab