Message-Id: <199601160058.CAA08952@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:45:33 -0800
Reply-To: "John E. Clifford" <pcliffje@CRL.COM>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: "John E. Clifford" <pcliffje@CRL.COM>
Subject:      tech:opaque
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1305
Lines: 31

&:
) assuming
that variables range over individuals of every world, in which case
{pixra lo kae gerku} - "picture of what in some world or other is a
dog" (with {kae} understood nonepistemically/nonsubjectively) - will
do the job.
pc:
Only if the picture of it is of it in a world where it is a dog.  If I
show you a picture of a cat, it may well be a picture of what in
some world or other is a dog, but it is a picture of it in a world in
which it is a cat.  So, still not quite, even if variables (of which
there are not obviously any in this locution, by the way) range
over all the individual there might be.

I don't, notice, have a better solution; I am in the frustrating
position of being only negative (it is a safe place, though).  I
suspect that the _ka'e_ is the trouble, but do not know how to
relativize _ca'a_ to the world depicted (rather than the one in
which the physical picture is)


i,n:
> I suggest that it is "really" a picture of something-to-do-with-brodas
> (and I would like to be much more specific than that, but I don't have
> all the answers :-).
pc:

Isn't this just getting back to the earlier (and earlier rejected) _tu'a
lo gerku_, which just is something-to-do-with-lo-gerku?  Unless you want a
different sort of something than NU (or, at least _nu_) provides.
pc>|83