From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Mon Jan 15 20:44:38 1996 Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id UAA25897 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:44:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199601160144.UAA25897@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id ADBEC0EF ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:08:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:45:33 -0800 Reply-To: "John E. Clifford" Sender: Lojban list From: "John E. Clifford" Subject: tech:opaque X-To: lojban list To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 1340 &: ) assuming that variables range over individuals of every world, in which case {pixra lo kae gerku} - "picture of what in some world or other is a dog" (with {kae} understood nonepistemically/nonsubjectively) - will do the job. pc: Only if the picture of it is of it in a world where it is a dog. If I show you a picture of a cat, it may well be a picture of what in some world or other is a dog, but it is a picture of it in a world in which it is a cat. So, still not quite, even if variables (of which there are not obviously any in this locution, by the way) range over all the individual there might be. I don't, notice, have a better solution; I am in the frustrating position of being only negative (it is a safe place, though). I suspect that the _ka'e_ is the trouble, but do not know how to relativize _ca'a_ to the world depicted (rather than the one in which the physical picture is) i,n: > I suggest that it is "really" a picture of something-to-do-with-brodas > (and I would like to be much more specific than that, but I don't have > all the answers :-). pc: Isn't this just getting back to the earlier (and earlier rejected) _tu'a lo gerku_, which just is something-to-do-with-lo-gerku? Unless you want a different sort of something than NU (or, at least _nu_) provides. pc>|83