From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Sat Jan 20 16:16:08 1996 Received: from wnt.dc.lsoft.com (wnt.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.7]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id QAA02642 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:15:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199601202115.QAA02642@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by wnt.dc.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.0a) with SMTP id 52402350 ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:42:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:51:33 +0000 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: tech:opaque X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 1296 > &: assuming that variables range over individuals of every world, in > which case {pixra lo kae gerku} - "picture of what in some world or other > is a dog" (with {kae} understood nonepistemically/nonsubjectively) - will > do the job. > pc: Only if the picture of it is of it in a world where it is a dog. If I > show you a picture of a cat, it may well be a picture of what in some > world or other is a dog, but it is a picture of it in a world in which > it is a cat. So, still not quite, even if variables (of which there are > not obviously any in this locution, by the way) range over all the > individual there might be. > i,n: I suggest that it is "really" a picture of something-to-do-with-brodas > (and I would like to be much more specific than that, but I don't have > all the answers :-). It sounds like Iain is right. It's a picture of something being a dog. I'm not sure where that gets us. What would x2 of pixra be then? Syntactically, a le/lo nu, presumably. But how would it be defined? John: > Perhaps what I have been trying to say to And is that "le nu...kei cu > ka'e fasnu" is true, but "le nu...kei cu ca'a fasnu" can be false. That's right, except that I'm no longer sure that even {fasnu} is the appropriate predicate. coo, mie And