From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Jan 30 04:40:29 1996 Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id EAA19634 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:40:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199601300940.EAA19634@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 30E7A4DE ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 4:09:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 04:48:51 MET Reply-To: Goran Topic Sender: Lojban list From: Goran Topic Subject: Re: PLI: Cultural gismu X-To: Lojban Listserv To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2948 > >> And that latter point is why I don't feel it is out of line to have skoto > >> cover both Irish and Scottish culture. If one decides to permit it to > >> cover Irish culture, one then makes lujvo to cover not only Irish, but also > >> the > >> other cultures that will contrast with Irish, so as to leave the gismu more > >> likely to be a general term. > > > >.i ie .i ku'i mi stidi lenu zoi gi'uste Gaelic/Scottish gi'uste goi ko'a > >noi ca xe fanva be zo skoto keiku binxo zoi gi'uste Celtic gi'uste > >.ija'ebo lo'i skoto cu selcmi lai alb. .e lai .eir. .e lai keltiber. .e > >lai gal. .e loi drata .imu'ibo loi sicko'o noi skotrneire na pe'i me > >ko'a > > > >Yes, but I think we should change the gismu definition from > >"Gaelic/Scottish" to "Celtic". That would permit {skoto} to include > >--More-- > >the Scottish and Irish and Celtiberic (?) and Gallic (Gaulic? sp?) > >and others. Because, Irish is IMHO definitely not Gaelic/Scottish! > > > This is explicitly mentione din the gismu list. We could change the > "definition", but not the keyword (which as you may recall is not necessarily > definitional) - the keyword "Scottish" is of course cognate, and the gismu > list is baselined. .iecai .i mi stidi lenu le mojvla na.e le xelfanva cu binxo .i mi djuno ledu'u ro mojvla ca stodi Of course. I didn't suggest that the keyword be changed, only the definition. I know that keywords are not subject to change. > This can be compared to the > continued discussability of grammar changes because we haven;t so firmly > closed the door. The gismu-list stability is what most of the community seems > to want before they will learn the language. .i la'ede'u binxo na'eke mutce ja vajni besecau loi gugdrneire .e su'o drata zo'o .i lenu binxo ca'o lo mentu belire cu cumki .i so'uda zgana This is a small and fairly irrelevant change except to the Irish and some others... :) It can be changed in two minutes, and almost nobody would even notice it. skoto kot ko'o Scottish x1 reflects Scottish/Irish/Gaelic/Celtic culture/nationality/language in aspect x2 ab 1 [Irish (= sicko'o), Scottish (= sunko'o), Old Celtic (= dzeko'o), Welsh (= nanko'o), Breton (= fasko'o); (cf. brito, glico) .i ta'o di'u se pamei loinu zo le'avla selsku va'o lo gi'uste .i ji'a ra se pamei loinu ba'e zo fu'ivla selsku va'o lo gi'uste zo'o .i na'e logji peipaucu'i BTW, this is the only place in the gi'uste where the word "le'avla" is mentioned. This is also the only place in the gi'uste where the word "fu'ivla" is mentioned. A bit illogical, wouldn't you say? co'o mi'e. goran. -- GAT/CS/O d?@ H s:-@ !g p1(2)@ !au(0?) a- w+(+++) (!)v-@(+) C++(++++) UU/H(+) P++>++++ L(>+) !3 E>++ N+ K(+) W--(---) M-- !V(--) -po+ Y(+) t+@(+++) !5 !j R+@ G-@(J++) tv+(++) b++@ D++ B? e+* u@ h!$ f?(+) r-- !n(+@) y+. GeekCode v2.1, modifications left to reader to puzzle out