Message-Id: <199602220401.XAA09944@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Wed, 21 Feb 1996 20:42:59 -0300
Reply-To: "Jorge J. Llambias" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: "Jorge J. Llambias" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>
Subject:      Re: "except" found?
To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
Content-Length: 1360

And:
>It's very clever, but don't you share my discomfort at using discursives
>in this way? {jianai} is virtually a negator - your example can be
>rendered {lae diu nalvajni ro na se ckaji be la airic}, {lae diu nalvajni
>ro na se gugdrxeire} (or with something less universal than ro, if you
>wish) - but it's not set up to participate in the logical structure of
>the bridi.

I agree, but the same happens with "except" in English. Of course you
can always expand it into some basic logical form, but then you have
problems, like specifying who are those "all" (which something less
universal than ro did you have in mind?).

> Are you really comforrtable about remembering to use
>{jia nai kau} in subordinate bridi?

Not really, that was more of an "it can be done if you really want to"
sort of suggestion. I don't think I would ever use it, but then I would
probably interpret the discursive as having scope over the subordinate
clause only.

>Why do you have to press UI into use
>for things that really ought to be handled by the logical bit of the
>bangu? -- feo.

Well, because I want to be able to use the language spontaneously at
some point. To figure out the underlying logic of some complexes like
"except" takes some thinking, and the same to process it from the
receiving end. Higher level shortcuts like "except" are useful, I think.

Jorge