Message-Id: <199602110726.CAA20852@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:52:50 -0500
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: *old response on "moskvas"
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR
Content-Length: 1637

>>Paulo:
>>>I also remember to have read "la moskvas." in a text by Cyril.  I know
>>>that initial clusters in cmene aren't restricted to permissible brivla
>>>initial pairs, but I thought the other phonological restrictions do
>>>apply to cmene.
>>
>>I believe that the correct Lojbanized form of the capital of Russia
>>based on actual pronunciation would be "mazg,VAS."
>>
>>lojbab
>
>I was taught to say mosgVA (or mosgv=E1, if the accented "a" makes it throug=
>h
>the mail system), so I assume the correct form would be "la mosg,VAS." The
>lesson on transcribing names is very badly organized and woefully>incomplete,
 so even having read it and gone over the exercise carefully I
>know that I don't know the rules correctly.


The main rules that you are missing are that consonant clusters must all be
permissible medials (and at the beginning must be permissible initials).

Therefore, you must either choose the medial zgv or devoice the entire
cluster to skf.

I was taught that unstressed 'o' is always pronounced either as 'a' or
schwa (Lojban 'y') in non-initial sylables.  hence my 'a' for the first
syllable vowel written 'o'.

Thus the choice is presumably between "mazg,VAS." or "mask,FAS." and the former
seems more true to the Russian pronunciation scheme than the latter.
But then my Russian is self-taught, if well-tested by raising kids who
were native Russian speakers, so if you were taught differently, you may
indeed be right.

As to improving the writeup on names - well I am not sure which writeup you
are referring to so I don't know what needs improving.  More specific
comments would be welcomed.

lojbab