From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU Sat Feb 3 12:38:38 1996 Received: from vms.dc.lsoft.com (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA00328 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:38:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031738.MAA00328@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by vms.dc.lsoft.com (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id B78C08A7 ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:07:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:08:12 MET Reply-To: Goran Topic Sender: Lojban list From: Goran Topic Subject: Re: PLI: "except" X-To: Lojban Listserv To: John Cowan Status: OR X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2433 .i coicai doi xorxes. .i gleki fa mi lenu do krefu jundi > >.i la'ede'u binxo na'eke mutce ja vajni besecau loi gugdrneire .e su'o > >drata zo'o > > > >This is a small and fairly irrelevant change except to the Irish and some > >others... :) > > The little word "except" is another one of those that are not very > easy to put into Lojban. I don't think that {secau} works as used here. .i pe'icu'i do drani .i mi puze'a pensi la'ede'u .i tu'ada'u xagmau lei pu sidbo befi mi .i la'e roloi sumti be zo vajni peda'u cu claxu loi gugdrneire .e su'o drata .iku'i di'u da'u smuni blesimsa jenai dunli I think you might be right there. I did think about that, and the cau thingy seemed the best of the ideas I had... {...}. But this, although similar, is not quite the same. > My first impression is that "except" has to be done somehow with {na'e}. > For example: > > la'e de'u cu nalvajni ro na'e se gugdrxeire > That is irrelevant to every non-Irish. > > That still doesn't work very well because it doesn't say that it _is_ > relevant to the Irish, although maybe it suggests it. We could turn it > around and say that it is relevant only to the Irish: .i .ie .i ju'ocu'i.e'u lu da se nalvajni gi'o gugdrneire li'u .i tu'adi'u tcelogji gi'ela'a nandu na'ebo loi logji certu .i mi na djuno ku'i ledu'u ta'i makau cusku la'elu su'o drata li'u Yes. What about {da se nalvajni gi'o gugdrneire}? This is very logical, and maybe difficult for those not logically minded. But I don't know what to do with "and some others" part. > Since "except" > seems to be much related to "only", I propose {po'onai} for that function: > > la'e de'u cu nalvajni lei po'onai se gugdrxeire > That is irrelevant to the Irish only-not. > (i.e. that is irrelevant except to the Irish, > only-not to the Irish.) .i .ienaisai .i ci'o mi lu da po'onai li'u selsmu la'elu da noi na'e pamei li'u noi dunli la'elu da .e su'ode poi drata da li'u I disagree. IMHO, po'onai means "not solely/uniquely", or "it works for them, but not only for them." co'o mi'e. goran. -- GAT/CS/O d?@ H s:-@ !g p1(2)@ !au(0?) a- w+(+++) (!)v-@(+) C++(++++) UU/H(+) P++>++++ L(>+) !3 E>++ N+ K(+) W--(---) M-- !V(--) -po+ Y(+) t+@(+++) !5 !j R+@ G-@(J++) tv+(++) b++@ D++ B? e+* u@ h!$ f?(+) r-- !n(+@) y+. GeekCode v2.1, modifications left to reader to puzzle out