Message-Id: <199602081158.GAA28223@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:20:27 -0500
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: pe'a & tanru
To:         adms@YCO.LEEDS.AC.UK
Cc:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
Status: OR
Content-Length: 1843

>Scott says:
>
>>>Thanks very much for explaining this to me. It illustrates one of the main
>>>problems with using pe'a to mark something as 'figurative'
>>>The phrase 'besna kafke', even marked as figurative meant absolutely
>nothing
>>>to me, as it is not used in English slang, or certainly at least not by me
>>>and my acquaintances.
>>Perhaps not, but, with adequate context, I understood (and was heartily
>--More--
>>amused by) the term upon first hearing it used.  I suspect you would have
>>understood it quite easily in context.  As I recall, the exchange went
>>something like:
>>
>>    Me:  I understand that A and B differ in the depleter.
>>
>>   Don: Depleter? What the heck does that mean.
>>
>>    Me:  Oops.  Brain fart.  I meant "I understand that A and B differ
>>       in usage." "Depleter" (xaksu) and "usage" (pilno) both have
>>        "use" in the gloss, and I grabbed the wrong one.
>>
>>I think the metaphor is obvious --- and mostly culturally neutral, as
>>it only expects the culture to consider farting impolite.


Farting may be impolite across cultures, but who knows, since belching
at meals is reportedly obligatory in some cultures.  You really need a
mabla/mal- to ensure that interpretation.

The purpose of using pe'a is as a warning.  No it does not tell you what
the tanru means.  It tells you what it DOES NOT mean - the obvious literal
binary metaphor - either or both components of the tanru are being used
figuratively.

Then if the listener does NOT recognize the cultural reference, the appropriate
repsonse is  [tanru] ki'a.  In short, pe'a begs the listener to ask if he
doesn't understand.  (Presumably an author writing for a poly cultural
audience might include pe'a tanru in a glossary at the end of the book
with explanations, if it did not spoild the artistic effect to do so.)

lojbab