Message-Id: <199602021620.SAA13323@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:15:45 -0501
Reply-To: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GNU.AI.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CLD
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
In-Reply-To:  <199602020503.AAA23228@access1.digex.net> (message from Logical
              Language Group on Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:03:18 -0500)
Content-Length: 2638
Lines: 56

Lojbab is right.

Based on my experience with the Loglan projects since 1976, I can tell
you that it is important that the LLG eventually *give up* a sense of
ownership of Lojban, so that others will "Make Lojban their own".
Otherwise, there will be fights over institutional procedure, which
will drive most away, rather than essays, arguments, and illustrative
stories in Lojban over how to speak.

Lojbab is also right in saying that the act of baselining should make
clear that the prescriptive phase of language development is over.  I
have studied four or more major variants of Loglan.  I am not keen to
continue to unlearn what I have learned and start yet again.  Only a
few dedicated people are so keen (many of you are on this list, of
course---but you are an unusual and elite group).  Lojban needs to
transition from the psychological state of `not yet really a language'
to `is a language'.

The baseline must be taken seriously.  It should mark the true
creation of a language.  Then we hope, people will learn it, speak it,
do lots of neat experiments with it....


As for the past and present:

    > The latest example of this is the new lujvo paper.  We are
    > suddenly presented with a new lujvo paradigm to discuss.

This is not the case.  The paradigm is old; the paper is based on work
by Nick Nicholas and Jim Carter.  There was considerable discussion
about this.  Anyone could and many did contribute to that discussion;
even I.

But it is easy for a newcomer to have missed that discussion -- you
need to have delved into the archives, or been part of a group of
oldtimers who continued to discuss such matters (I don't know if any
such groups exist other than intermittently).

One thing the baseline will do is let people feel that they can write
a complete set of coherent documents for the language without fear
that it mutate on them and make their work obsolete.  Then the
newcomer gains the advantage, since he or she does not have to unlearn
the obsolete, but can learn the new.  And it is the old timer who
begins to reflect on how hard it is to memorize gismu thirty-four
years after he first looked at a Loglan utterance.

Of course, had I the inspiration, the ability, and seven years, I
would write my own language; I would make base 12 the default number
system, end gismu with consonants, use seven vowels, get rid of the
latin alphabet... but I am not going to do this.

I quite like Lojban as is, and want to see it blossom.

    Robert J. Chassell               bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu
    25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road     bob@rattlesnake.com
    Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA   (413) 298-4725