Message-Id: <199602110726.CAA20826@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:33:15 +0100
Reply-To: Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
Subject:      Re: PLI: pe'a
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Status: OR
Content-Length: 2785

> Perhaps not, but, with adequate context, I understood (and was heartily
> amused by) the term upon first hearing it used.

.i mi ji'a go'i .i ku'i le selsku goi ko'a na ju'o klunu'i

> Hold on.  First, I disagree that we've established that it's a bad
> tanru.  I can give several examples of "good tanru" ("good" because
> they appear in official LLG papers) where {broda brode} isn't a real
> {brode}.  How about {rokcu cinfo}?

.i lu rokci cinfo li'u na klute'isni .i fi'o ciksi la zipf. ri tormau lu
rokci ke cinfo blixra li'u .i va'o lenu da degysni lo kacmyxra gi'e te
preti fi lu le ti prenu ma selcme li'u kei do spusku xu lu ti prenu
nagi'e pixra li'u

> What species (selcinfo) is a stone
> lion?  Given that the notion of species has to do with genetic
> compatibility, I'd argue that any "species" one might claim for a stone
> lion is purely metaphorical.

.i lo jutsi be lo rokci cinfo du lo jutsi be lo selsni be ri
.iseva'obo ko lanli lo se kai,rgenotipo na.e kai,rfenotipo

no'i mi no'e tugni di'u .i mi na nelci gi'e pu fapro .iku'i loi drata pu
fapro mi la'edi'u .i mi na co'a nelci .iku'i mi jimpe pe'i gi'e co'u
fapro

> How about {xunre kerfa}?

.i mi skicu le kerfa be mi mamta fo leka xe'irxu'e je'u .i ko'a pilno
lo spa,rkana la cinta

> Likewise, the relative size of a {cmalu plini} may be described as
> {plini cmalu}, though one would hardly say a {plini} could be {cmalu}.

.i da cmalu de ba'e di
.i lo plini ka'e li'a cmalu zu'i lo'e plini
.i la pluton. go'i ju'o
.i la saturn. ji'a go'i fi la .iupiter.
.i la .iupiter. go'i le terdi leka se xabju

> Second, I'd say you have an odd notion of "metaphorical".  True,
> "temporary reason failure" or "intelligence interruption" would be
> accurate translations of the notion, but they *aren't* metaphors for
> the concept, they're the concept itself.  Webster's defines metaphor as
> "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one
> kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a
> likeness or analogy between them (as in the ship plows the sea)".

.ie .i ku'i la .uebster. noi vlackicku cu ciksi zoigy. metaphor .gy. noi
valsi fi la gliban. .i zo tanru na ka'e se fanva fi la gliban. .i loi
jai bai farvi befai la lojban. cu pu jinvi ledu'u my. smirai zo tanru fu
loka smuni .i mi na djuno ledu'u ki'u makau go'i .iku'i la'elo'e tanru na
datsni

> Third, as I said above, one needn't have heard the expression before
> to understand it.  One simply needs enough context to interpret it.
> Sure, a brain can't fart, but the context in which the expression
> appeared left little room for the metaphor to mean anything else
> that an "intelligence interruption".

.i ke'u ko tcidu loi zerenobi'ozecinomoi pinvlagri pe la'o skami.
lojex.txt .skami

co'o mi'e. goran.