From - Wed Feb 14 13:50:00 1996 Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA00342 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:11:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199602141911.OAA00342@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id 13BD86C5 ; Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:37:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 15:37:47 -0300 Reply-To: "Jorge J. Llambias" Sender: Lojban list From: "Jorge J. Llambias" Subject: Re: PLI: *cukta za'o nanmu (PU: *old response to and #1) X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 1431 >> >I am afraid you have lost me completely. .i do ranxi .ijo ki'u ma .ijonai >> >do cusku ma >> i oisaizo'o pe'u doi goran e'o sisti le nu pilno zo jo i le do jufra >> na ka'e terjimpe >.i .a'onai.aunai mi tcenei zo jo .i'e .i de'u xamgu lenu cusku zoigy. >Are you ironical? If so, ..., and if not, ... .gy. .i xu na go'i i na go'i {ijo} does not mean "if so". At best it means "if and only if". Let's consider the first part of your sentence: i do ranji ijo ki'u ma [go'i] What is And to answer? Suppose he agrees that he is an irony, then he has to make the second part true as well, for example {ki'u le nu mi djica}. Now suppose that he does not agree that he is an irony. Then he must make the second part false as well. The same answer will do. So what do you conclude from that answer? Nothing, because it works whether he is an irony or not. The second connection complicates things even more. The convention is left bracketing, so if he answered so as to make the first part true, he must now answer so that {la and cusku ....} is true. Otherwise, he must make it false. {ijonai} does not mean "if not", and in any case it does not connect with the first part only, but with the whole connected first two parts. You would do slightly better with {inaja} for "if so", but it is still not quite right. >.i ra mutce satci je simsa belo sambau .u'i i ku'i srera co'o mi'e xorxes