Message-Id: <199602120239.EAA02962@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:13:29 +0200
Reply-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject:      Re: GEN: almoat-PROPOSAL: intervals
To: Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2861
Lines: 90

> Date:         Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:21:17 +0100
> From: Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>
> Subject:      GEN: almost-PROPOSAL: intervals

> Anything except 0da will satisfy me. I *need* such a mechanism, and
> I believe this should be expressible within the tense system. It
> ba'e belongs into the tense system. I hate writing

>  lenu mi pu klama la glazgov. cu temci lo cabna lo nanca belipimu

> when I can say

>  mi klama la glazgov. puxe'i lo nanca belipimu

> or

>  mi klama la glazgov. puza lo nanca belipimu

> It is not a question of extra 6-7 syllables. It is a matter of principle.

> ta'o, this was rauroi written in lojban... I thought it might be time to
> set it forth in English. Details left to the expert community to work
> out. I am being boring, I know. But I *need* cai this. Really.

> co'o mi'e. goran.

   This posting is NOT pro or con the proposal and
   NOT A CHANGE PROPOSAL, just a technical feasibility study.

   If we overload NOI and make the following changes to the YACC grammar,
   we can express both an origin and an offset:

C time_1030               :  time_distance_1036
C                         |  time_distance_1036  time_A_1031
                          |  time_A_1031
                          ;

  time_offset_1033        :  time_direction_1035
C                         |  time_direction_1035 time_distance_1036
                          ;

+ time_distance_1036      :  ZI_624
+                         |  ZI_624 NOI_585 sentence_40 BO_508


C space_A_1042          :  space_distance_1049
C                       |  space_distance_1049  space_B_1043
                        |  space_B_1043
                        ;

  space_offset_1045       :  space_direction_1048
C                         |  space_direction_1048  space_distance_1049

+ space_distance_1049   :  VA_613
+                       |  VA_613 NOI_585 sentence_40 BO_508


   A more general form would replace 'NOI_585 sentence_40' with
   'relative_clauses_121'.

   Corresponding changes could be made to the grammar of VEhA/ZEhA.

   All these modifications pass YACC without conflicts.

   VA/ZI+NOI is more verbose than xe'i but also more expressive as it
   combines subjective and objective distances.

   Examples:

     *   mi pu zanoi nanca lipimu bo klama la glazgov.
     *   mi zano'u pimu loi mi gu'arna'a bo vi gunka
     *   mi xabju vanoi mitre lipaxaki'o bo la'o sy Helsinki sy

   ------------------------------------------------

   I REPEAT:

   THIS IS NOT A CHANGE PROPOSAL. I REFRAIN FROM MAKING ANY NEW PROPOSALS
   -- AND I'M NOT PUSHING EVEN THE ONE I MADE ONE AND A HALF YEARS AGO.

   In general, I'm more con than pro at the moment. We need the books
   and we need the baselines, soon.

--

  co'o mi'e veion

---------------------------------
.i mi du la'o sy. Veijo Vilva sy.
---------------------------------