Received: from VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (vms.dc.lsoft.com [205.186.43.2]) by locke.ccil.org (8.6.9/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA29971 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:33:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199602121633.LAA29971@locke.ccil.org> Received: from PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM (205.186.43.4) by VMS.DC.LSOFT.COM (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.0a) with SMTP id F05BA93B ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:04:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:13:29 +0200 Reply-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Sender: Lojban list From: Veijo Vilva Subject: Re: GEN: almoat-PROPOSAL: intervals X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: John Cowan Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 Content-Length: 2861 X-From-Space-Date: Wed Feb 14 12:44:38 1996 X-From-Space-Address: - > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:21:17 +0100 > From: Goran Topic > Subject: GEN: almost-PROPOSAL: intervals > Anything except 0da will satisfy me. I *need* such a mechanism, and > I believe this should be expressible within the tense system. It > ba'e belongs into the tense system. I hate writing > lenu mi pu klama la glazgov. cu temci lo cabna lo nanca belipimu > when I can say > mi klama la glazgov. puxe'i lo nanca belipimu > or > mi klama la glazgov. puza lo nanca belipimu > It is not a question of extra 6-7 syllables. It is a matter of principle. > ta'o, this was rauroi written in lojban... I thought it might be time to > set it forth in English. Details left to the expert community to work > out. I am being boring, I know. But I *need* cai this. Really. > co'o mi'e. goran. This posting is NOT pro or con the proposal and NOT A CHANGE PROPOSAL, just a technical feasibility study. If we overload NOI and make the following changes to the YACC grammar, we can express both an origin and an offset: C time_1030 : time_distance_1036 C | time_distance_1036 time_A_1031 | time_A_1031 ; time_offset_1033 : time_direction_1035 C | time_direction_1035 time_distance_1036 ; + time_distance_1036 : ZI_624 + | ZI_624 NOI_585 sentence_40 BO_508 C space_A_1042 : space_distance_1049 C | space_distance_1049 space_B_1043 | space_B_1043 ; space_offset_1045 : space_direction_1048 C | space_direction_1048 space_distance_1049 + space_distance_1049 : VA_613 + | VA_613 NOI_585 sentence_40 BO_508 A more general form would replace 'NOI_585 sentence_40' with 'relative_clauses_121'. Corresponding changes could be made to the grammar of VEhA/ZEhA. All these modifications pass YACC without conflicts. VA/ZI+NOI is more verbose than xe'i but also more expressive as it combines subjective and objective distances. Examples: * mi pu zanoi nanca lipimu bo klama la glazgov. * mi zano'u pimu loi mi gu'arna'a bo vi gunka * mi xabju vanoi mitre lipaxaki'o bo la'o sy Helsinki sy ------------------------------------------------ I REPEAT: THIS IS NOT A CHANGE PROPOSAL. I REFRAIN FROM MAKING ANY NEW PROPOSALS -- AND I'M NOT PUSHING EVEN THE ONE I MADE ONE AND A HALF YEARS AGO. In general, I'm more con than pro at the moment. We need the books and we need the baselines, soon. -- co'o mi'e veion --------------------------------- .i mi du la'o sy. Veijo Vilva sy. ---------------------------------