From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Sat Jul 27 00:58:20 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA13350 ; Sat, 27 Jul 96 00:58:11 BST Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 838396642:00666:4; Fri, 26 Jul 96 16:57:22 BST Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa00458; 26 Jul 96 16:56 +0100 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6357; Fri, 26 Jul 96 11:56:29 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7038; Fri, 26 Jul 96 11:24:37 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:23:30 -0700 Reply-To: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jim Carter Subject: Re: may the wind be always at your back To: lojban@cuvmb.columbia.edu Message-ID: <838396603.458.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R Robert Weiss writes: > I was going to bring this up during the discussion a few months ago about > "all men are equal, but some are more equal than others," and now that > we're talking about "may the wind always be at your back" I have another > opportunity. > As I understand Lojban, the literal translation of these aphorisms > contains no more than their literal meaning... I think the difference between the phrases is significant. "Wind at back" is a metaphor as you point out; appropriate (if one wants to be pedantic) would be to enclose the translation in pe'a .. po'a brackets to indicate that the meanings are figurative. Whereas, "all animals are equal, but pigs are more equal than others" is intended by the speaker (a pig) to be taken literally and to be acted upon as if the semantic form were correct, i.e. other animals should defer to pigs. Of course the reader knows that the definition of "equal" is being twisted in a tragi-comic manner. Probably the entire story, a satire, could be enclosed in pe'a .. po'a, though the sophisticated reader is supposed to figure that part out for him/herself. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu (finger for PGP key) UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc