From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Sat Jul 27 00:56:36 1996 Received: from punt3.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA13338 ; Sat, 27 Jul 96 00:56:02 BST Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 838398307:20471:1; Fri, 26 Jul 96 17:25:07 BST Received: from relay-1.mail.demon.net ([158.152.1.140]) by punt-3.mail.demon.net id aa20577; 26 Jul 96 17:25 +0100 Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by relay-1.mail.demon.net id aa01275; 26 Jul 96 17:24 +0100 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 6657; Fri, 26 Jul 96 12:24:12 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7312; Fri, 26 Jul 96 12:23:56 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:17:13 -0600 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: may the wind.... To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Message-ID: <838398281.1275.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R > We should of course translate "may the wind..." first into what it means, > something like > ?? "I hope always/most of the time you are helped (by something)" ?? > and then into lojban [...] > 2) How can pe'a be understood by lojbo without reference to their > (non-lojban) culture(s)? > 3) And, underlying these two: is there any point in using or even having > pe'a? If you were using Lojban to communicate with someone from a very different culture, or with a computer or an alien or something, then you'd want to avoid cultural metaphors and be as explicit and uncolorful as you could, to be understood. However I'd expect metaphors could often be safely used in Lojban because: - some metaphors might be obvious to any intelligent being regardless of culture (?is this true?) - very often Lojban interlocutors will happen to be from the same or related cultures - maybe there will eventually be a lojbanic subculture with its own metaphors But I agree that speaking-without-metaphor ought to be a mode of lojbanic usage that people train themselves to be able to use when necessary. chris ----- End Included Message -----