Message-Id: <199607261229.IAA27787@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Fri, 26 Jul 1996 04:51:47 -0700
Reply-To: Robert Weiss <weiss@EWALD.MBI.UCLA.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Robert Weiss <weiss@EWALD.MBI.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: may the wind be always at your back
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
In-Reply-To:  <9607260031.AA32700@ewald.mbi.ucla.edu>
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I was going to bring this up during the discussion a few months ago about
"all men are equal, but some are more equal than others," and now that
we're talking about "may the wind always be at your back" I have another
opportunity.

As I understand Lojban, the literal translation of these aphorisms
contains no more than their literal meaning, e.g., either that there
should be some wind in back of a person (now what could that mean?) or
that some wind should be blowing towards his back.  Now, that's not really
what the original means at all.  There's no doubt some name for this which
I don't know, so I'll call it the real meaning, which is "may you
generally be assisted in all your endeavors".  Shouldn't that be the
proper thing to translate into Lojban?

Bob Weiss

On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Colin Fine wrote:

> vecu'u le notci po'u <838323171.25315.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> la Chris
> Bogart <cbogart@POCC.GPSMET.UCAR.EDU> cu cusku di'e
> >>   I'm trying to figure out how to say "may the wind be always at your
> >> back."  What I've got so far is:
> >>
> >> ko cu             stoga'e         le rixfarbi'e ku
> >> (I command you to)constantly feel the wind from the behind-direction
> >>
> >>   Basically I'm trying to figure out how to express the "may you" bit.  I
> >> was thinking of using "pacna" (wish/hope/expect), but I'm not sure how to
> >> say "I hope that xyz is true" without having to resort to "xyz.  I hope
> >> that ko'a is true".
> >
> >I don't have my gi'uste with me, but what you put looks good grammatically.
> >Another way you might try it is using .a'o
> >
> >As for grammar -- you don't need the "cu" or the "ku", but they are
> >acceptable -- it's a question of what style you prefer.
> >
> >co'o mi'e kris
>
> Yes, that's precisely what UI are for.
> Furthermore, I don't think you want "ko" here - it's not a command to
> the hearer.
>
> I would say
>         do stoga'e le rixfarbi'e a'o
> or more laconically
>         roroi brife le do trixe .a'o
>         (at all times something is a wind from the rear of you [hope])
>
> This is still fairly literal, and probably not really what is wanted.
>
> Better still would be
>         brife nagi'a trixe .a'o do
>         (something is a wind only-if [it] is-behind [hope] you).
>
> co'o mi'e kolin
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Colin Fine    66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK          |
> |     Tel: 01274 592696      e-mail:  colin@kindness.demon.co.uk      |
> |      "Losing is a state of mind, not a fact of life." -K.B.Brown    |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>