Message-Id: <199607291538.LAA03023@locke.ccil.org>
Date:         Mon, 29 Jul 1996 10:11:36 +0100
Reply-To: Steven Belknap <sbelknap@UIC.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET>
From: Steven Belknap <sbelknap@UIC.EDU>
Subject:      may the wind be
To: John Cowan <cowan@LOCKE.CCIL.ORG>
Content-Length: 1558

>Now this is the most promising. I can see that  pe'a can be used for lojban
>metaphors. We still have the difficulty of creating metaphors that are
>non-culture-specific, or at least lojban-specific, but that seems a likely
>source of real lojban metaphors. (We'll probably still have arguments about
>where the metaphors originate, mind...!)
>
>>"May circumstances always assist you like a tailwind assists a ship".
>
>Yes!!
>A compromise with the best of both worlds. A metaphor and a clear
>description of the meaning. The best yet, anyway, in my opinion.


No! This is a simile not a metaphor. Similes are easy to translate between
languages, as a simile explicitly links the essentially unlike things which
are to be compared. Metaphors are implicit. I would look askance at
translating metaphor as simile. They are different. Metaphor draws on the
shared culture, knowledge, or language of the speaker and listener more
than simile does.

As for metaphors which might be translatable between cultures, I suggest
that the best hope lies in those metaphors which "mine the common ore" of
human experience. (Do most cultures mine metal? Maybe not.)

"He wouldn't know how to poor piss out of his boot if the instructions were
written on the heel."
"He doesn't know the difference between his anus and a hole in the ground."

All humans possess anatomy, many humans wear shoes, etc.

Of course, when we have cybernetic speakers, we'll be forced to seek even
more basic or more abstract commonalities on which to draw for
metaphorizing.

cohomihe la stivn