From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Sat Jul 27 01:00:02 1996 Received: from punt4.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA13360 ; Sat, 27 Jul 96 00:59:53 BST Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 838421215:17754:3; Fri, 26 Jul 96 23:46:55 BST Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa17693; 26 Jul 96 23:46 +0100 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 7606; Fri, 26 Jul 96 18:46:21 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8495; Fri, 26 Jul 96 18:46:06 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:46:06 +0100 Reply-To: Steven Belknap Sender: Lojban list From: Steven Belknap Subject: may the wind be always at your back To: Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN Message-ID: <838421194.17693.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R The fastest tack is directly across the wind, not downwind. Tacking was made possible by the invention of the keel, which is at least a thousand years old. If this is a nautical phrase, it must either be very old or infelicitous. Running downwind is a rather nervous tack, as there is the danger of an unintentional jibe, which can capsize the craft. Conveying wishes to be slow and nervous seem more like a curse than a blessing. Is there a reference for the assertion that this is a natical term? I am familiar with this phrase from a plaque that my grandmother had in her parlor, which was titled "An Irish Blessing May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back...may the Lord hold you in the hollow of his hand." It was set to verse by some composer, possibly Virgil Thompson. Translation of allegory, metaphor, and simile is an art; there is no "right" translation between natural languages. Each of the strategies suggested seem defensible. Perhaps to convey the flavor of the simile one could use a ... group signifying figurative spech, then specify from which culture/language/tradition you are borrowing using . I think I would try something like this if I were trying to retain the poetic sense of the phrase. As to the usefulness of figurative speech in lojban; figurative speech is certainly a common speech behavior in natural languages, and thus ought (IMHO) be straighforwardly expressible in lojban. A short cmavo pair for doing this seems reasonable to me. -Steven