From lojban@cuvmb.bitnet Sun Sep 29 01:33:10 1996 Received: from stryx.demon.co.uk by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA15529 ; Sun, 29 Sep 96 01:33:08 BST Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by stryx.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA15522 ; Sun, 29 Sep 96 01:32:14 BST Received: from punt-4.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ia@stryx.demon.co.uk id 843373176:26656:0; Sun, 22 Sep 96 07:19:36 BST Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu ([128.228.1.2]) by punt-4.mail.demon.net id aa26390; 22 Sep 96 7:18 BST Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 7918; Sun, 22 Sep 96 02:18:05 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2944; Sun, 22 Sep 96 02:17:43 EDT Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:16:27 +0300 Reply-To: veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI Sender: Lojban list From: Veijo Vilva Subject: my feedback/worries/interest/reaction/impression of Lojban (fwd) X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Multiple recipients of list LOJBAN Message-ID: <843373139.26390.0@cunyvm.cuny.edu> Status: R Forwarded message: >From cprchrd@mailserv.mta.ca Fri Sep 20 23:40:43 1996 Message-Id: <9609202040.AA20701@mailserv.mta.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Christian Richard" To: veion@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 17:41:06 -0400 Subject: my feedback/worries/interest/reaction/impression of Lojban Reply-To: cprchrd@mailserv.mta.ca Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) I tried to "feedback" the following message to your group, but something went wrong, so I am sending it to you. It is addressed to anybody and everybody who knows more about Lojban than me, particularly the makers of the Web site explaining a bit about Lojban. If you can send this post to the group, I would appreciate it. Thanks. -------- Very interesting! I am a French-Canadian Esperantist and was lured to your Lojban site and read a bit and sort of browsed. Lojban seems *SO* foreign to me! Unlike Esperanto, which tries to be similar to normal and easy communication and which follows universal concepts of verb, adj., noun. etc, Lojban seems to me very alien and unhuman! Like it says, Lojban is very logical and computer-ish. It would well suit some sort of cyberpunk-fantasy alien race of machine-people or computers. But as a language for use by men and women, it is very interesting... and probably a lot harder than you say it is. When I first saw Esperanto, I was not as alienated as I was with Lojban. The concepts in Lojban seem so foreign to my mind. It would be very interesting to learn Lojban and thus learn to think in such a "Lojbanian", computerish manner. It feels like some sort of secret code that one would use in a war. But if I am interested in learning Lojban... I certainly do not haev the time right now. I am studying French and English, in both of which I am fluent, as well as learning Spanish, Latin, Espearanto, and German. And another language at the moment would be TOO much! :) In addition, Lojban does not seem to me complete. I would rather wait a couple years for it to be "frozen" as you say, with a dictionary and everything out. Then I wouldn't have to learn, unlearn, and relearn. Perhaps it is ust I who am alienated by Lojban. To me it seems SO foreign in its construction and manner of usage. I am very poor at mathematics, science, etc. but I am good enough to master French's most obscure grammar rules and exceptions, mostly because it is my mother tongue. I always love to have a very creative and limitless mind. I am a nihilist and dadaist. Nothing for me is set, and everything is absurd and to paly with. I fear perhaps usage and understandign of Lojban woul maybe stabilise my thought's freedom into logical ways that could make me more "computer" in thought and less "poetic" or "absurd". But on the other hand, it could greatly improve a weak part of me! :) I love absurdist and Dadaist literature. It would be interesting to see how a competely Dada piece of literature could be translated into Lojban and if it could be possible. For example, Tristan Tzara's "La premiere aventure celeste de M. Antipyrine" or "Le coeur a gaz". How is poetry translated into Lojban?? If you can answer any of my questions or comment on any of my ideas, statements, worries, and curiosities about Lojban, PLEASE DO email me at "cprchrd@mailserv.mta.ca". After reading around, I am very curious and stimulated by Lojban. Many things are still to me unclear. Like what is the difference between Logban and Lojban? The former is the draft version and the latter is the revised version? Also, since my First language is French and I am very poor at mathematical reasoning and logical methods, it would be interesting to see my particular difficulties and feelings as I learn the language. If you have more questions about me, please do ask them, and if you can please do answer mine or help guide my thoughts about Lojban. :) Great Web page! You certainly have me interested now!! Christian Richard French/English/Esperanto cprchrd@mailserv.mta.ca